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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:49 am 
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Hi folks,
I have a 2TB d2Network2. I really like the NAS - but I've run out of space and wanted to put a 4TB drive in the enclosure. I removed the 2TB drive from my NAS and had a look at it. It has an MBR style partition table so the max partition size is 2TB (i.e. - I can't just clone that disk to a 4TB disk and then use something like gparted to extend the data partition).

So I thought "well, the 4TB drive must just not work with this NAS then" but I just spotted a d2Network2 with a 3TB drive for sale on Amazon! So the newer 3TB version of the NAS must (I think??) use a different partition table type (maybe GPT??) that supports the larger drives.

Would it work if I just created a GPT partition table on the new disk, partitioned it up as per some of the threads on this forum and dumped the partitions off my 2TB drive to those new GPT partitions? Anyone ever tried that/have instructions?

Or even better - would anyone have a dump of the first 2GB of a d2Network2 with a 3TB drive?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:03 pm 
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I'm afraid your nas won't work with a 4TB disk. The problem is the bootloader. A >2TB disk has GPT partition table, in contrast to the MBR table on smaller disks. The bootloader has to load the kernel from partition 6, so it has to be able to read the partition table. Unfortunately support for GPT tables is added only recently. Older Lacie NASses do not support GPT, while new NASses (<18 months?) do.

However, there might be a work-around. You could use a hybrid partition table. More here. This might work for a D2/2 . It won't work for a multi disk system, like the 2Big2 or 5Big2.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:29 am 
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Hmmm... thanks for that. I was kinda expecting that answer. I read through the article you linked to and while it's quite interesting (I hadn't seen that technique before!) I don't think I'll try that this time. I wasn't aware there were different hardware revisions of the d2Network2 (one non-GPT aware and a later one that's GPT aware) - that's a real pity (I liked the flexibility of having USB/eSATA/LAN ports on the one device - and the software interface was reasonably slick).

I don't suppose there's any way of flashing the firmware on the d2Network2 to update the bootloader (clutching at straws here I know!)??

Appreciate the quick reply and the information!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:40 am 
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Actually - a quick bit of google-fu reveals the following site where the guy has flashed a new bootloader using a running linux on his d2 Network 2.

So that's all really interesting but... I have to admit I would just lose interest before I went to that level of hassle. For me:

having to replace the bootloader on the flash memory (with a bootloader I don't have!) and having to replace the software on the disk (with software I don't have!) = too-much-hassle-time-to-replace-the-NAS.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:57 am 
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flintdk wrote:
having to replace the bootloader on the flash memory (with a bootloader I don't have!) and having to replace the software on the disk (with software I don't have!) = too-much-hassle-time-to-replace-the-NAS.
But where is the fun, then?

BTW, you have the software. The partition dumps are identical for MBR and GPT. You only need recent one's because the kernel has to support GPT. The partition dumps in my repository are new enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:11 am 
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Quote:
But where is the fun, then?


True :D - just a bit time pressured at the minute! I didn't realize the software was identical. At least that's half the battle. It's easy enough to get those images from the original disk (I think I actually have them at home on a Ubuntu pc...).

Hmmmm... I think I'd still have to long finger this - maybe it's a project for the winter!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:44 am 
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Sorry - just for clarity - is it really the "boot manager" on the flash chip that needs to be replaced?
Or is it the bootloader of the disk? I thought that in operating systems that support GPT-based boot through BIOS services rather than EFI, the first sector is also still used to store the first stage of the bootloader code, but modified to recognize GPT partitions.

So - do I need to change the software on the flash memory at all? Or do I simply need a copy of the bootloader from a 3TB disk?

Apologies for asking - was very comfortable with MBR booting, but the introduction of GPT, and (U)EFI booting has left me a little uncertain! People seem to use the term bootloader and bootmanager interchangeably. :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:50 pm 
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That is only true for PC's. This is an embedded Linux device. On this device the flash contains u-boot, plus an u-boot environment. The environment contains a script which is executed by u-boot. This script basically does:
  • Reset SATA, and read partition table of the connected device.
  • Try to load a kernel from partition 10. If succeeded, pass execution to it.
  • Try to load a kernel from partition 6. If succeeded, pass execution to it.
  • Panic.

A kernel is recognized by it's u-boot header, and a kernel which is packaged this way is generally called a 'uImage'. BTW, this uImage is written raw to the partition. u-boot can also load a uImage from a filesystem (or from a tftp server, or ...), but Lacie decided to use a raw partition.

So u-boot has to be able to find partition 10 and 6 (and thus to be able to decode the partition table) to be able to launch the Linux kernel. There is no boot-code on the disk other than the kernel. The kernel takes care for the rest.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Wow - thanks for the tutorial. I wasn't aware of the difference in the boot process for an embedded linux device. I guess I should read a little more about the d2 network/the d2 network 2, how it boots, etc..

I guess I could always try to get the latest flash image from lacie :lol:
Although... I'm not sure they like sharing that kind of stuff.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:47 am 
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Hello ! My first time here !

After a lot of reading, i just bought yesterday a New Lacie Network LaCie d2 Network 2 (3TB)

Even before powering it for the first time, e dissassemble it , so i can make an image of the untouched hard drive.

This way i can make some experiences and reverting to original. Or even upgrade the hard disc to a better one (probably WD RED).
The original is a poor seagate ST3000DM001 with an estimated life of only 2400 hours !! http://www.seagate.com/www-content/prod ... 1212gb.pdf

I wonder what should i use to make an imagefile of the untouched hard drive ?
Norton ghost? Acronis? Clonezilla ?
And the motherboard shoud be in IDE mode or AHCI ? And it´s mandatory to have an uefi bios ?
Or can i use a Sata-USB adapter to perform the imaging ?

I appreciate your opinions

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:32 am 
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Diginas wrote:
The original is a poor seagate ST3000DM001 with an estimated life of only 2400 hours !!
You're kidding. That would mean the disk would live only 3 months. According to this page the 'Power-On-Hours' are the mean time between a failure, as in unrecoverable error for a single sector. 2400 hours is a normal value, AFAIK.

Quote:
And the motherboard shoud be in IDE mode or AHCI ? Or can i use a Sata-USB adapter to perform the imaging ?
Depends. If you want to make a raw backup, it doesn't matter. 3TB raw is 3TB raw. It you want to interpret the partitions, you'll need AHCI. And if a sata-usb adapter works for that depends on the adapter. Rule of thumb: if you 'see' the parttitions, and the sizes are sane, it's allright.
Quote:
And it´s mandatory to have an uefi bios ?
No.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:04 am 
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Mijzelf wrote:
Diginas wrote:
The original is a poor seagate ST3000DM001 with an estimated life of only 2400 hours !!
You're kidding. That would mean the disk would live only 3 months. According to this page the 'Power-On-Hours' are the mean time between a failure, as in unrecoverable error for a single sector. 2400 hours is a normal value, AFAIK.


Thanks for your fast reply !

Still searching about the 2400 hours stuff. Found some stuff :

~One item in the Barracuda's data sheet related to reliability caught our eye. Although the document lists NAS and desktop RAID applications as best-fit applications for Seagate's offering, the specified 2400-hour power-on rating indicates that this drive was not designed for environments requiring 24/7 availability. If that were the case, its specification should say 8760 hours. The 2400-hour specification, which represents only 100 days of continuous operation, assumes that drives are used eight hours per day, five days per week. This means that the drives should take full advantage of any available power-saving technologies that shut down the spindle motor during idle times. This applies equally to desktops and storage servers. Should you decide to use Barracuda drives in a NAS device, for instance, don’t forget to configure its power management appropriately.

***********************************

There is no longer a 5 year warranty on any seagate consumer drive other then the Constellation class (about 3 times the cost?).. the retail box of this drive (STBD3000100) is still 1 year.

if you can find one with a 5 year warranty, then get it. the drives sold to the vendors (not made) before Jan 1 2012 (i believe that was the hard date?) are 1 year. a lot of websites have not updated to reflect this. one good example was best buy was advertising them as a "5 year warranty". but it said 1 year on the drive if you ran through the segate website.

keep in mind these drives are a new technology. in order to get the 1TB platter density, they have a laser on the head to heat up the platter during write operations to get the platter hot enough for a write at such a high density. these have not been around long enough to test them for several years... who knows? they might be king.

****************************

And two links :

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1379883

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1689576


****************************
Final Toughts :

I have a 500GB lacie edmini running for about 6 years, 24/7 .
Time to replace / upgrade it.
A friend of mine borrowed me a Dlink DNS-313. Very nice, with native NTFS Filesystem! Limitations: No SFTP and 2TB Limit.

So, after some research, got divided between a couple of nas solutions :

Fujitsu CELVIN Q700 (empty , and would also buy a couple of WD RED 3TB)
Western Digital My Cloud EX4 (empty , and would also buy a couple of WD RED 3TB)
Lacie LaCie d2 Network 2 (pre-shipped with unknown drive - though was hitachi but turn out to be seagate ST3000DM001 )

Since i have a nice experiencie with my running edmini , and one drive is enough for my purposes, i choosed the LaCie d2 Network 2 (3TB), trusting that would come with a quality hard drive .... but ...

Conclusion:

I am a little bit consorned about this seagate ST3000DM001 that comes shipped with the lacie LaCie d2 Network 2
This Seagate seems similar to WD Green , with already caused me some bad experiencies in a couple of situations.

Should it worth changing the shipped Seagate to a better one, like WD RED, WD Black, WD RE , Seagate NAS ?

I could even use the poor seagate for backuping the NAS . Does the Esata or USB Ports of LaCie d2 Network 2 support 3TB hard drives ?

Thank You

EDIT:
Continue searching, and it seems that lacie has now a simple way of reinstalling the OS: http://www.lacie.com/support/support_ma ... ticle=1422
With this, it probably it doesn´t make sense to make an image of the original (untouched) hard drive ... or should i make it anyway ?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:28 am 
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A disk which can run 8 hours a day can also run 24/7. Actually it's better for a disk to spin continuously than to perform spin-down/spin-up and power-down/power-up cycles. In the specsheet of a disk the number of those cycles is also specified, under the name 'Load/unload cycles'.

About that laser, I can imagine this can be problematic. But be aware that it's only used while writing, which is rare. Most of the time the disk is just spinning idle, and when it's not idle, in most cases it's reading.

You should have a backup. A disk (any disk) is a mechanical device, and it will fail, some day. And it doesn't matter WD gives 5 years warranty on a Red, some of them will fail within that time. They will be replaced then, but the data is lost.

Quote:
Should it worth changing the shipped Seagate to a better one, like WD RED, WD Black, WD RE , Seagate NAS ?
I don't think so. The WD Red and Seagate NAS are AFAIK just desktop disks with different firmware. That different firmware offers TLER, which is only important for hardware raid. The Black is a high performance disk, I thought. No added value for an Arm-based NAS, as the processor is the limiting factor anyhow.

Quote:
I could even use the poor seagate for backuping the NAS . Does the Esata or USB Ports of LaCie d2 Network 2 support 3TB hard drives ?
Yes. Supporting 3TB is a function of the kernel, not of the interface.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:31 am 
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Posts: 36
It would be nice if this forum had a "like" button :D

I agree with the " Actually it's better for a disk to spin continuously than to perform spin-down/spin-up and power-down/power-up cycles "

A couple of years ago, when WD Green´s started dying everywhere, i read somewhere that the proble was just that, the "green feature" that caused the constant spin-down/spin-up

I suppose that it´s just an airplane, the most intensive part is the take-off and landing :)

And also another disavantage that i see of the constant spin-down/spin-up is the temperature variations.

Sorry for my bad / inconsistent english.
Cheers from Portugal ! Beautiful spring-taste day here !


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Mijzelf wrote:

Quote:
Should it worth changing the shipped Seagate to a better one, like WD RED, WD Black, WD RE , Seagate NAS ?
I don't think so. The WD Red and Seagate NAS are AFAIK just desktop disks with different firmware. That different firmware offers TLER, which is only important for hardware raid. The Black is a high performance disk, I thought. No added value for an Arm-based NAS, as the processor is the limiting factor anyhow.

Quote:
I could even use the poor seagate for backuping the NAS . Does the Esata or USB Ports of LaCie d2 Network 2 support 3TB hard drives ?
Yes. Supporting 3TB is a function of the kernel, not of the interface.



Can i have an e-Sata drive connected to LaCie d2 Network 2 , but without having the powe supply connected?

I explain my idea: I could have a 3TB e-Sata offline, and remotely power it only when i want to backup the LaCie d2 Network 2 , using a Gembird USB Sivershild :

Image


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