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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Hey

I managed to instal a cheap NAS server, but I have some questions/problems.

1 - if I copy data to the NAS server from a pc connected to the local network, it works, but sometimes there is connection loss, so I push the button on the screen (try again), then it continues.

2 - another problem is when I connect the harddisk directly to the NAS server (I used a converter to connect the internal harddisk to the usb port of the NAS server), I cannot acces certain folders, (for example My documents). I think all the private folders of windows are not accessible. But other folders copy just fine, only with the problem I mentioned in my first point.

3 - As there is a lot of data on the harddisk, I want the speed to be fast enough to copy everything to the NAS server, but I have slow speed( arround 5 or 6 mB/s(Not sure if it was mb/s or mB/s). Even when I connect the harddisk directly to the NAS server. I used a laptop to copy the data. then I tried an option that the NAS server has: connect the hard disk to the front USB port, pus the button that is on the NAS server, then the NAS server start copying everything except folders as windows, ... . But this only works if I connect an external harddisk. If I connect the internal harddisk (with the convertor), It does recognize it(orang led means the harddisk is recognized and ready to copy), but fails to start the copy proces(after pushing the button, I hear short beeping sound, according to the userquide, the copy failed).

4- would it go faster connectin the harddisk on the usb port, if I have a gigabith router and a networkcable and network card that support gigabit? so 1000mb/s? that would be perfect.

NAS SERVER has:
1000Mbps gigabit Ethernet( RJ-45 (Ethernet 10/100 & Gigabit))
DUAL Core ARM PLX NAS7820 processor (2x 750 Mhz)
usb 2.0

it's a Medion P89635 (MD86803)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:56 pm 
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The 'Windows private folders' are private because Windows enforces it. When connected to a Linux machine (what your NAS is) the read/write blocks are not working. So it's not clear to me why those folders aren't copied. Maybe some strange filenames inside?

I certainly hope you are getting 6MB, and not 6Mb. When you are on a 100Mbit line, and are copying data from an USB disk (connected to the NAS) to the internal disk of the NAS, that is about the speed you can expect. That way you are actually down- and uploading everything.

When you connect the USB disk to your PC, and upload over a 100Mbit network, you should get about 11MB/sec (for big files. Small ones can be *much* slower). On gigabit that might be 25MB/sec (~300Mbit). The NAS processor is too weak to saturate the whole gigabit. You can squeeze some extra bits by using FTP instead of Samba.

If you are not afraid for the commandline, you can create an FFP stick, and do the copy actions locally on the NAS, in a command shell.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:25 pm
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Commandline hmmm. I hoped a few clicks in windows would solve the issues :-).

I dont think the software will work on the nas server I mentioned.

I was thinking to open the nas server to take out the harddrive but dont find any screws ...

So i think i will just let it copy and let it do until it finishes.

For the pesonal folders: i can't even have acces to them. I receive a message that there is no connection or that I have no acces. Does it have to do with windows security? How can i make the folder public?

And I made networkdisk and put login and password to be remembered. But now i want to use another account i will make on then nas server. But how can i make windows ask me again for the login and pasword? It doesnt ask it anymore.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:35 pm 
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Haramo wrote:
I dont think the software will work on the nas server I mentioned.
I think it does. The Medion P89635 is actually a ZyXEL nas in disguise.
http://zyxel.nas-central.org/wiki/Category:NSA-212

Quote:
I was thinking to open the nas server to take out the harddrive but dont find any screws ...
Maybe you can find some pointers in this German Wiki. But the disk is not accessible from a Windows box.

Quote:
For the pesonal folders: i can't even have acces to them. I receive a message that there is no connection or that I have no acces. Does it have to do with windows security? How can i make the folder public?
As said, Windows security should be no problem. I don't know why the box can't read that folders. Did you use encryption, maybe?

Quote:
And I made networkdisk and put login and password to be remembered. But now i want to use another account i will make on then nas server. But how can i make windows ask me again for the login and pasword? It doesnt ask it anymore.
In windows you can delete your current session from the command line:
Code:
net use \\server\IPC$ /delete
where server is the name or IP of the NAS. (Depending how you logged in)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:33 pm 
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OK, thanks for the understanding.

Now, how fast will the copy proces be then with the FFP usb stick?

Does it has any risk to damage the firmware from the NAS server? So if I follow the steps, it shouldn't be any risk?

When I go to the page that explains the Usb key func.sh, I don't see the medion P89635 , only some other medion, does it mean I will take a risk? http://zyxel.nas-central.org/wiki/Usb_k ... .28plus.29

on the page: http://zyxel.nas-central.org/wiki/FFP-stick, my model (P89635 ) is not mentioned either (only, NSA 310, 320, Medion P89626/P89630 ). I also read the page quickly. I have used telnet a loooong time ago. But if I understood correctly I need to have a application (for example telnet)on my laptop and the usb stick goes in the NAS server. and how do I open telnet on windows?

encryption? I dont think so. if it's not standard on the personal folders, It shouldn't be. But some are telling me that I have to use the same login password (NAS user) as the login password from the windows account. To be honest , I don't see the logic of this? Could that be my problem? So it means also that I have to ask all the 4 computers their login and pasword, or they have to sit with me and make their own NAS account. I find this really not realistic.

Depending on how I logged in? It was a windows screen that asked or to fill in my windows accound information or choose for another account. So I have choosen the last one. I think the server name was mentiond and not an ip adres. Is this what you mean?

Added: the link http://zyxel.nas-central.org/wiki/Category:NSA-212 only mentioned these firmwares: The firmware is versions 1.00(UZD.2) or 1.01(UZD.2).

But I have firmware 1.01(UZD.3). Could that be a problem to use the stick?

Also, is it possible to connect the NAS server directly to the computer through the LAN port and then copy the data?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Haramo wrote:
Does it has any risk to damage the firmware from the NAS server? So if I follow the steps, it shouldn't be any risk?
No and yes. The stick and FFP itself is harmless. But it gives you a root shell on the box, and that give you full power on the system. If you know how you can kill the box. (Hint, if you erase the flash it won't boot anymore. Yet it's not a brick as a PLX7820 can boot without flash, with a prepared harddisk)

Quote:
When I go to the page that explains the Usb key func.sh, I don't see the medion P89635 , only some other medion, does it mean I will take a risk? http://zyxel.nas-central.org/wiki/Usb_k ... .28plus.29

on the page: http://zyxel.nas-central.org/wiki/FFP-stick, my model (P89635 ) is not mentioned either
Actually all those Medion boxes are the same. The only difference is the size of the internal disk.

Quote:
I have use telnet a loooong time ago. But if I understood correctly I need to have a application (for example telnet)on my laptop and the usb stick goes in the NAS server. and how do I open telnet on windows?
You can download PuTTY, and use it as telnet client. On Windows XP Hyperterminal can also be a telnet client.

Quote:
But some are telling me that I have to use the same login password (NAS user) as the login password from the windows account. To be honest , I don't see the logic of this? Could that be my problem?
Don't think so. Linux just doesn't use Windows ACL's, so it doesn't know which user is supposed to be the owner.

Quote:
Depending on how I logged in? It was a windows screen that asked or to fill in my windows accound information or choose for another account. So I have choosen the last one. I think the server name was mentiond and not an ip adres. Is this what you mean?
Windows stores the sessions under the server name as he knows it. So if you typed \\<ip-of-nas> in the address bar of explorer, the session is stored on the IP. But if you double clicked on your NAS in 'Network Neighbourhood' (or whatever name Windows uses nowadays), it's stored on the name.

Quote:
I have firmware 1.01(UZD.3). Could that be a problem to use the stick?
No.

Quote:
Also, is it possible to connect the NAS server directly to the computer through the LAN port and then copy the data?
Yes. You'll have to give both the NAS and your PC a static IP address in the same subnet. (As there is no DHCP server in this direct connection)

Quote:
Now, how fast will the copy proces be then with the FFP usb stick?
I don't know. On a ZyXEL 300 series copying from an NTFS disk connected to a PC over gigabit goes faster than copying from the USB port to the internal disk. Both reading from USB and writing to disk is done by the CPU, and the network interface is relatively cheap.
But the Medion has a dual core chip, and a totally different network chip. So I cannot predict what will happen. My feeling says the Medion can not read an NTFS disk on USB at 25MB/sec (NTFS and Linux don't mix very well), so the network might be faster.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Also, is it possible to connect the NAS server directly to the computer through the LAN port and then copy the data?
Quote:
Yes. You'll have to give both the NAS and your PC a static IP address in the same subnet. (As there is no DHCP server in this direct connection)


I managed to backup the data. even the folders which couldn't open when the hard disk was in the pc and the pc was on. I connected the NAS server directly to my laptop with the included ethernetcable(5E , gigabit). the harddisk I connected to my laptop too with a usb convertor.

the networkcard of my laptop supports gigabit.
I saw the NAS server on the network and it works. When I went to the configuration page of the NAS server , to setup a static ipadres, the fields were already filled in (gray), so I wanted to manually put a static ip adres. Save it, but not sure if the NAS server saved something as nothing happened.
Then, If I didn't forget, I wanted to setup the static Ip adres on my laptop, But when I want back to see the NAS server on the network, I couldn't seeit anymore.

I change back my dynamic configuration, but couldn't see the NAS server. I don't know what I did afterwards, but suddenly the NAS server was back online.

Can maybe someone tell me which steps to follow to know for sure that the NAS server is setup right in windows? is it the ipadres and subnetmaks that will make the NAS server show on my laptop (direct connection)? or are there other settings?

The speed with the direction correction was:

17u50 -18u35 : 37gb music at 17MB/sec , some time later, 14MB/s, even later 11,9MB, then 12,1MB, 12,7MB, 12,9MB.

total time: 45 min to copy 37 GB.


videos 467GB, had a speed of 21,8MB/sec
So does this mean that the processor of the NAS server is OK . As I understood that the processor plays a big role to determine the quality of the Gigabit speed.


and no connection los! great. But how will it be if I put back the hard disk in the pc and the NAS on the router? Maybe I need a gigabitRouter and gigabit cable everywhere, or N -draf wirelless technologie? Would this help to solve the connection los? After clicking 'try again', the data continues to copy. I think it has nothing to do with lossing access to the NAS server.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:36 pm 
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speed if NAS server is connected directly with the medion pc reaches a max of 34MB/sec. Mostly it's 33MB/sec tested by copying bunch of video (DVD's, etc) to the NAS server.

Image


Speed with the sony vaio laptop (VPCEL1E1E) , while the medion harddisk was connected with a usb convertor to the laptop: 21.8MB

Image

Is it possible the difference of speed is also influenced by the power of the processor in the computer/laptop?

First time I connected the NAs to the medion pc, I copied a folder which contains difference kind of files(drivers, applications, ...little system documents lijke system volume information, NRTPage.sys, ...) total 2.56 GB DATA. I saw that the speed was in the beginning 40MB/sec, then it went down and down and then suddenly the message that the connection was broken. I clicked on try again, then it continues, and speed continues to decrease untill I saw 10MB/sec, ,t hen 6MB, then 3MB?

When I was copying all the DATA from the harddisk to the NAS server wity my laptop, I had no connection loss. But with the medion, it happens once.

IS it possible the medion is to powerfull with sending DATA and the NAS cannot handle it, so connection gets los?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:17 pm 
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About your static addresses and network masks: Two network devices can talk to each other when they are in the same subnet. That means the ip addresses should be the same where the mask is 255. So when a device has 192.168.2.1 mask 255.255.255.0 that means the other devices need an address 192.168.2.x. If the netmask is 255.255.0.0 the other devices need an address 192.168.x.y.

About you laptop seeing the nas without static addres, I forgot the APIPA addresses. Normally a device asks a DHCP server to assign an address. But when that times out a device can assign itself an address in the 169.254.x.y range. It simply chooses a random address, and broadcast: 'Does anybody have this address? If not, it's mine'. If no one objects the device has an address.
So after all the static addresses were unnecessary.

About speed: It's normal that big files are faster than small ones. There is a lot overhead in creating files on disk. Once a file is created, you can add data at virtually no cost. The phenomenon that it starts with an higher speed indicates that some cache is involved. As soon as the cache on the NAS is full, the speed decreases to the speed it can actually write to disk.
When I understand you well, you got 33MB/sec when uploading files from internal harddisk of a PC, and 22MB/sec when upload from an USB disk connected to a laptop? Maybe it's interesting to know that an USB2 harddisk maxes out at 25MB/sec. So your 22MB/sec could be bottlenecked by the USB disk. Have you also tried to upload from the laptop internal disk?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:31 pm 
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I will answer your last question(copying DATA from my internal laptops harddisk to NAS) next time. But in case you misundertood me: I copyed exactly the same video folder ot the NAS server, first time the harddisk containing the video folder connected to my laptop and the NAs connected also to my laptop(gigabitcable). and secondly while the medion pc was on (the hard disk I connnected to the laptop is from this pc) and the NAS server connected to the medion pc, I copyied the video folder to the NAS server.

At this moment I discoverd something else:

By now, I know that larger files will have a better speed. What I discoverd is when I copy the videos from the medion pc to the NAS connected to it with gigabit cable:

If I copy them to the public, I have 33MB/sec, but If I copy them to 'movie', then around 16MB/sec. and mostly(not always) If I restart the copyproces I receive the error connection, but clicking try again, continues the copy proces.

Strange no? first I thaught mayb the NAS server knows it wil not handle the speed if it's copying movies, so that's way there is a movie folder on the NAS server, but even if I copy to the video sharefolder, it still give the error message. But only once, then I left it for a while, no errors.

I added the NAS server to my home network (windows) where sharing printers and files is enabled. If i disable it, the NAS server is not anymor visible (after a period of time)

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:02 am 
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Quote:
If I copy them to the public, I have 33MB/sec, but If I copy them to 'movie', then around 16MB/sec.
I guess the build-in mediaplayer detects a new file, and starts indexing it, eating half of the available resources.
Try to disable the mediaserver, or at least the 'automatic detection of new media'.

If you can't, do you have the possibility to enable a share named 'Volume 1' or something like that in the shares menu? On a ZyXEL this is a 'super share', it is the actual data partition, while all other shares are subdirectories herein.
If you have access to that share, you can simply copy your movies to public, and when you're done, move them in 'Volume 1'/public to 'Volume 1'/movie. As the move is within a single share, it's only administrative, and fast. (Moving from the share public to the share movie results in a down- and upload. This is because Windows cannot know these shares are actually on the same server/disk.)
After that the mediaserver will kick in.

About that connection error, maybe it is a timeout somehow, imposed by the lack of resources on the NAS. Again, try to disable the mediaserver during mass copy.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:08 pm 
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the connection error is only if the NAS is connected to the medion pc, not to the laptop. I would rather blame the networkcard of the medion pc or windows settings?. Maybe a protocol porblem (comunication problem)?

I have connected the NAS server directly to the laptop and copies some videofiles to the NAS server:

Image


the same test (with the same DATA, but first copied it to the intern harddisk of the pc medion) , NAS server connected to the medion pc:

copy from NAS(public) to intern hard disk medion pc (fastest speed):

Image


copy from intern hard disk medion pc to NAS:

image damaged??!! how can, I made the picture on the medion pc, and then put them on the NAs server, connected the NAS server on my laptop). I have tested it out: only the jpg pictures were damages, bmp no problem to open them. If I copy only the jpg pictures, works fine. but copying the entire folder , the jpg pictures are damages (on the NAS server)!!. Finally I found the problem:

C:\Users\UserX\Desktop\pc medion2nd time\verbinding NAS server : If I coopy the folder 'pc medion2nd time,: jpg pictures are damaged.

if it put the pictures in here: C:\Users\UserX\Desktop\pc medion2nd time: and copy the folder pc medion 2nd time to NAS: jpg pictures are ok.

So I have to make sure the data is not damaged!!

here the image for the speed (copy from intern hard disk medion pc to NAS (public folder):

Image

copying to video folder:
Image

So it seems the medion pc is faster copying data from internat disk to NAS then the sony laptop.

I haven' yet disabled media server, this is my next step to find out if possible.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Haramo wrote:
image damaged??!! how can, I made the picture on the medion pc, and then put them on the NAs server, connected the NAS server on my laptop). I have tested it out: only the jpg pictures were damages, bmp no problem to open them. If I copy only the jpg pictures, works fine. but copying the entire folder , the jpg pictures are damages (on the NAS server)!!.
Don't know if you can read German?
http://forum.nas-portal.org/showthread. ... #post74149
In short: The mediaserver (Twonky) dives upon the uploaded images, locking them temporarily, which makes that samba cannot write, causing the damage. You can't disable Twonky, but you can set the 'automatic scan time' to 0 or -1. This disables live scanning.

About the speed difference between your desktop and your laptop, I guess the laptop has a weaker processor? If you are copying from the laptop, maybe it's CPU is fully loaded?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Hi

I found something :

Image


If I disable it, I have arround 30MB speed, enabled arround 20 , mostly 17MB speed. (tested on my laptop).

Thanks for pointing me that out. the speed is now the same as when I copy to public sharefolder

Before I start copying , I did disabled some things (like itunes server, ftp server, .. ). Well everything I could disable I disable it. But the one in the image, I haven't seen. or maybe I thaught it could do anything wrong... .

according to the medion pc, also possible can be the harddrive that is faster then on the laptop?

and no, cpu of laptop is not fully loaded, I still can work with my laptop.

Quote:
...set the 'automatic scan time' to 0 or -1. This disables live scanning...

This is what I found:

Image

So If I change the value to 0 it will be disabled. Then I can be sure the DATA won't be damaged if I copy from a deeper lever (folders)? I will test it out, see if the problem is solved... .
My germain is not that good, but lucky there is google translate.


Last edited by Haramo on Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:25 pm
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Hi

I found something :

Image


If I disable it, I have arround 30MB speed, enabled arround 20 , mostly 17MB speed. (tested on my laptop).

Thanks for pointing me that out. the speed is now the same as when I copy to public sharefolder


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